iRealization: All the resources, books, pointers, and people, all tell the same basic truth. But! That was not sufficient. What is it that you are looking for? The words are there in so many places. What do you want?
Mark: That’s a good question. I have to sit with that myself.
iRealization: So, what exactly is happening here? These words are not new. What is it?
Mark: If I look throughout my trajectory and you came along, and all that stuff, I think for me, what mattered, was the direct contact with you. Speaking through voice and stuff.
iRealization: Exactly! And what is that? What is the difference between that and the words on a screen for example? Technically there is no difference, but. What is the difference?
Mark: I thought about that for sure. I never could put the reason why to words but there’s an element of transmission. If it is spoken from a place of actual living, whatever is being spoken about, the signal is amplified somehow.
iRealization: Exactly. What it is is that it’s a fire. The fire burns everything down. It’s not that reading about the fire will give you the answers. You just sit next to the fire and you’ll feel warm, you know?
Mark: Oh! I love that.
iRealization: Because this is not about the words that describe the fire. It’s actual Awareness. And the words have no meaning – this is just sound. How can sound have meaning before you give it?
Mark: Right. Everyone can make the same sound and say the same things.
iRealization: The problem is in one’s own interpretation of those sounds. To intermingle Intelligence into non-intelligence creates illusion, because Pure Intelligence is now mixed up with the opposite of it.
Mark: It’s good that you say that. From the people I’ve talked with, that might be the main difficulty, that people take this teaching and grasp it as knowledge and have a hard time breaking through that mental exercise.
iRealization: Yes, because they are deriving from the pleasure of knowing the knowledge. Which is illusory and not real. So, if you don’t realize that the experience is not coming from objects, that it is self produced, then one keeps on chewing the bone, like a dog. It actually starts bleeding its own gums. It keeps on chewing on it and chewing on it, that it thinks the blood is coming from the bone. And if you try to take the bone away, it will bark and won’t give it up. That’s what it is, one is imagining that all the pleasure, and all those things, are coming from the objects. Which are self created, and the experience is also created – one creates the experiencer and the objects – and the relationship between them. So one continues to be deluded, unless one realizes that the knowledge implies that the very experience is illusory. Because otherwise people don’t realize what is reality. They think reality is based on experience, sensory experience. As in, if I’m able to feel myself here, then this is real. "Feel" means what? Sensory, no? Touch and feel and smell – all those things. Senses! So if you rely on senses, you are done for. The entire world is relying on senses to ascertain whether something is as basic as real or not.
Mark: It seems that culturally that’s the most addicting thing. For me, the emotional aspect, when it kicks in, it triggers all the reactionary stuff. In the way I see society and talk to people, it’s definitely a staple, that reactionary mindset caused by an emotion or an event.
iRealization: The word “world” and “people”, it means that, reactions and all that. If you don't have that reaction you cannot call it a world anymore. It’s the actual thing. There is no world there.
You see, the world means what? There is something where you are, and they are, and everybody is. There is a universe. There is a creator, you call it God. And all those things. The individual.
This thing is beyond senses. So one can never experience via the senses. The way it keeps on, is searching for the experience of it. You want to be enlightened. You want to be free. Right? How will you know you will be free? You rely on experience for that knowledge. And that experience that you rely on, for the knowledge of anything, is a sensory experience.
Mark: It will never happen in that way.
iRealization: This cannot happen through senses. Therefore, you cannot experience it through the normal experience of what you call reality. Which are the senses. Which is not actually the reality. So if you’re trying to experience real reality through unreality, it’s never possible. The question of experience doesn’t arise there. Because experience is only of the senses. It’s a divided experience. Which means sight, smell, sound, you know? It’s divided. But there’s no division there, in truth. These concepts don’t arise. You need different things for you to experience anything. First of all, you have to be there to experience. And then something has to be there to be experienced. And there has to be the relationship of experiencing. That seemingly happens in the process of consciousness, because in consciousness there are objects. So, objectification is the very process of experience – which is the false – because there are no objects. You are imagining them. So, you can never experience the actual. Not in this way. Through the senses. So what happens? What happens is that you give it up. There is no point, no? It’s like the mirage. Always running behind the experience. Created by the imagination. Like the dog chewing the bone.
Mark: In that process that you are describing, of giving it up…
iRealization: It gets given up. It gets dropped. It’s not that you give it up.
Mark: That process seems to be a thing across seekers.
iRealization: Yes. Seeker is itself the illusion. As long as there is a seeker, there will be seeking.
Mark: Right.
iRealization: If you seek, you create the seeker. So, if you realize the seeking is creating the seeker, how to get rid of the seeker? You stop seeking. You don’t physically stop. But no more do you seek, let’s put it that way. There is no more point in seeking. It’s not that you stop seeking because someone said that there’s no seeker and that the seeker creates it all. It’s not that. But in realization it is that.
